Work on the diet first- Give mix of lentils, veggies, fruits(apart from citrus,apples , bananas for sometime) and avoid sugar, avoid all artificials as well. I have not tried Jowar rotis. I give my son Bob red mill gluten free oats + protein beverage for breakfast , fruits for morning snacks, pomegranate juice after school, rice+lentils+nonveg+veg for lunch, sev/chimlee laddoo,mixture for evening snacks, idly+lentils for night. I feel in your daughters case you have to work on yeast after diet. The wormwood extract also works on yeast. I am giving this for my son now. I gave him a dose last year and currently I am giving him for this year. I got this from Ravi pharmacy in Mandaveli. Its inbetween the BSNL telephone exchange and canara bank in Mandaveli on the main road itself.
When starting carnitine supplements, just give a a little first , ie 1/8th of the capsule per day and see how it goes. Carnitine supplements tend to increase yeast.
ourasdkids do not ship to India. I had inquired sometime back. They said that they had stopped because of some issues on getting the products reached to customers in India. I dont know if they have started now.
Milk free alternatives are
Nutriveda(whey protein isolate, will contain only trace amount of milk protein if at all any)
Lifetime kids(This is vegan-rice,pea,chia seeds with added calcium)
The above 2 are not available in India
Others which are available in India are soy milk, in case your kid is not allergic to it. Soy causes speech issues for some kids.
As Jyothi said some kids tolerate goats,sheeps milk. Camel milk does not contain casein.
Other options like rice milk, almond milk are poor alternatives for milk since they contain only 1 gm protein . A 200 ml of dairy milk will contain about 10 gms of protein.
Darifree does not contain the protein. This is a potato based milk which contains added vitamins and minerals.
hey thanks guys...will try goat milk..:)
Currently we are not adding any sugar to any of her food (even to milk that she has), but she keeps eating sweets sometime. I dont give her any junk like burger, sandwitch or lays etc. Any bought out food i read for Artificial color/flavour then i dont buy them (but if something is hidden and not labelled cant help)
I am not giving her oats, kind of stopped wheat for more than a 1 wk-10 days but my husband by mistake gave a little chappathi. I use to give the regular oats sometime but have not give it for long time. I guess i will try to order Bob miller now
I will start with No sugar/Artificial food/ GF and work upwards
When you say Lentils you mean Pasi parrupu right? Or it includes other variety of dhal like Masoor Dal (Red one) / Tur etc
Her current diet pattern is as below
Morning before school - Sometimes Milk or No milk., Idly / Dosa / Kuzhi paniyaram / Bananna
Snack for school - Nuts (2-3 Cashews/Almonds/Walnut with Dates/Figs) / 1 fruit (chikoo/ Papaya/Banana/Guava) (if not given in morning) / some tiffin (Poha upma/ Rice Sevai/ Jowar puri / Channa Sundal). But 50 % she will eat the tiffin othertimes she will not.
Lunch (at Day care) - Rice with Dhal (Tur dhal that we use for Sambar) with little Rasam or Curd rice. Sometimes my MIL might make Variety rice like Tomato/Onion or Coconut or Lime rice
Evening Snacks (4 pm) - Fruits (Apple / Orange / Guava/Pear). Apple dominates mostly as it is Simla apple season
Again she will have one more snack sometime like Murukku variety /Athirasam etc
Dinner - Rice again Dhal or curd rice depending upon what she had in AN
Before bed sometimes she has a small glass of Milk
I am planning to come out with a Food chart for a week as i mentioned so that i streamline on what is given and try to give the problem food less and in rotation basis. I need to get this pasted at home so that my MIL will follow this Regime (hopefully)
Worm wood extract that you mentioned is it a Deworming medicine. What is the dosage and frequency in which this needs to be given. I had give her Zenteel in Sep, i could see lot of tiny tiny worms squirming in her motion for about 4-5 days.
NJ, what exact made think that it could be Yeast for her so that i will watch out for these symptoms on continous basis
She does have Randon talk ie she keeps talking out of context that she know which might have happened earlier in the day or sometime before. This is apart from her regular talk of asking what she wants or answering us.
Other thing that i found is when we ask her some question she will not repond to that but keep continuing on what she was doing/talking earlier or something irrlevant (This happens atleast 50% of the time). Why does this occur? Is it an attention span problem or preoccupation? What can help reduce this? Is this and Random talk also related to Yeast?
What kind of sweets she eats? Laddoo kind of sweets or is it chocolate? Chocolate contains gluten, maida is made from wheat----some of my friends think maida is not wheat. When my son has a laddoos every day he develops a stinky gas and stools(yeast symptom). I give him a laddoo twice a week, but keep a gap of 3 days from the next laddoo. Whenever there are occasions where he eats more sweets then he develops this stinky gas.
By lentils I meant , mung, chickpeas, dal varieties etc.
I avoid bananas and apples. Just lately I have started giving bananas twice a week(3 days apart from giving the next banana), and golden delicious apple(not the red ones). Fruits I give are muskmelon, guava, pears, pomegranate, occasionally pineapple and chickoo
walnut and Wormwood extract is a deworming med, but is also said to work on yeast.
I'll continue on this post tonight...
The symptoms that you are saying is either due to yeast, or opiate response from allergens. Gluten does take some time to get out of the system. So you may see the results only after 2-4 months.With casein its 3 days. In my son I always associated gluten with aggression and impulsiveness and casein with attention deficit. But other foods like high phenolic foods and artificials can also cause aggression in case of phenol intolerance. Sugar and too much carbohydrates increases yeast which in turn also causes aggression and hyperactivity.
I am giving 26 drops(the minimum dosage) of wormwood extract 3 times a day and the dosage is to continue upto 10 days.
If you want I can give you the nutritionist's number whom we met with at the start. She was referred by Dr Jayanthini. Since your daughter does not have GI issues and is already talking, you may want to check first with her if at all the diet is required and will only avoiding sugar and artificials do.
Thanks for the reply.. Sweets that she eats generally is Adhirasam (Rice flour & jaggery) or Jangiri (i guess it is made out of fermented urad dhal) or boodhi but all these bought out one only not home made. earlier we used to give Badhusha as she used to like but now i had kind of stopped as i think it is Maida..
Now i am not giving her biscuits also as it has wheat and artificial flavours.
she does have Gas sometime (but not smelly as much as i observed). I think it is due to Dhal that she has as they have the Gastric property. Stools are also not that smelly, in the sense stinky or awful. But i have a doubt that it contains some undigested food particle. She got toilet trained about 3-4 mons back, we have only western toilet so she uses a baby seat and does so i am not able to see it clearly. Earlier she used to squat on floor and do so i used to see. So i was able to watch, that is how i saw those worms also when i dewormed i could see the tiny worms
I am just thinking if i will do a Comprehesive Disgestive stool analysis test also, which will check for some type of food not digested and may be avoid them or reduce the quantity or rotate them. I generally do all the tests in Lister so need to check if they do it.
The Golden delicious apple that u mentioned is it wax free because most of the apple are coated with Wax from mild to heavy. So i am buying simla apples as it is season now.
She eats more bananna actually- hill plantain variety, almost every day,somedays she will eat even two. She also likes Kamala orange a lot and wants to eat atleast one a day. So same day she would eat a combination of any of the 3 fruits Banana, orange or Apple.
Other fruit that she eats is Chikoo, Guava, Papaya (earlier she used to be crazy but now reduced and wishes to take only occasionally), Pear she likes it less only, i think i need to precipitate more interest
I had bought Muskmelon this week, but since it is bit bland without sugar want to see if she will like otherwise i can add Honey, Is that OK? In a shop i saw Forest Honey from Himalaya, is it any better. The honey that i have at home is Dabur honey.
Reg wormwood extract i got the method of giving, what about the frequency is it like once in 6 months?
Do send me the contact of the Nutritionist? How did you find his/her advice? How frequently do you visit them
Jangiri made my son super hyper..We used to get this from Sastri nagar ananda bhavan where they make it hot. I think its the high sugar content and I think that its got color, its orange in color usually. Whenever he ingests it, he runs up and down , all around immediately. I can clearly make out the difference. I stopped it about 6-8 months back and have not tried it again.
I had done a stool analysis test with lister. The tests are not reliable. Even though I could clearly see undigested stools nothing showed in the lab reports. Stool tests are not reliable, Thats what I have seen and what I heard from other people also.
Golden delicious has wax. The wax are usually food grade wax. Wax is usually used so that apples retains moisture and thereby does not get spolit quickly. But most will be removed when the apples are put in water for 15 to 20 minutes.
I usually give muskmelon with a teaspoon of demerara sugar strewn on it. And as with any fruits or veggies, I rotate. give the next same type of fruit/veg only after 3 days.
Earlier I gave wormwood extract last year in Jan. Now I am giving his second dose. So I gave this once a year.
Regarding the nutritionist, she seems like a very knowledgable person. and I think her area of work is mostly with stroke patients, But she also says she has dealt with children on the spectrum. I did go to her initially, now I am not going to her. She seemed wise. But there were some contradictory things what she was saying-- For instance initially she said that no casein/gluten/eggs/apples/corn/soy/bananas/citric fruits/chocolate/sugar and adviced to give 2 teaspoons of ragi with palm sugar for sweetening twice a day. But once I started the diet, the gas and stools turned foul smelling(some sort of imbalance/increase in yeast I think since we tend to give more sweet and rice products when milk/wheat is stopped). When I told her after couple of months that I am concerned about the calcium since ragi is only 2 teaspoons and that too it goes undigested in the motions, she did not have anything to offer alternate, and told that she had told earlier to take eggs and grapes etc. But infact he was allergic to eggs since he was getting gastric and behavior issues with eggs and we did an IGe test and found that he was highly allergic to egg white. The test I did individually without consulting her. Next visit when I again complained about undigested food in stools she asked to give aloe vera, ashta churnam and seven sea cod liver oil. The seven sea cod liver oil has only 25-35 mg of EPA, DHA per capsule and also very less vit A and D , (The exact quantity is not mentioned in the label), so its typically useless. Aloe vera caused severe loose stools for him and ashta churnam increased his anger and impulsiveness to a very untolerable extent for us(he started biting behavior again). Plus she also said not give give any supplements , even calcium!!! and all the US supplements are made for western composition and our composition is different and we dont know what would happen in the long run blah blah. I was not comfortable with that kind of explanations.... Too much of diet restrictions and nothing to support it with, also this gfcf diet originated in the west(from US doctors only), so that I find a bit hippocritical.
My son woke up. I;ll continue this post
Hi recd a lot of friend requests, I am able to add posts but not able to accept friend request.
continuation from my earlier post, So I told to consult with this nutritionist just in case, your daughter may not need the diet,and only fiengold diet will be required.
What happens if you click on the accept friend request button?
I am kind of shortlisting on the supplements, I had decided to go with Calcium with Vit D3 powder (Kirkman) / Multivitamin wafer (Kirkman)
For fish oil, i am kind of narrowing down on 2 of them,but slightly confused on which one to finalize. Here are the composition of both. can you tell me which will be better? Also you had mentioned the Fish oil with Acetyl l carnitine will help in speech. so is there any ratio or we need to go with the recommended dosage of both.
Nature's Answer, Liquid Omega-3, Deep Sea Fish Oil EPA/DHA, Natural Orange FlavorTotal Omega-3 Fatty Acids – 1150 mgEPA – 650 mgDHA - 450 mgOther Omega 3 Fatty Acid – 50 mgOther IngredientsDeep sea anchovy & sardine body oil, natural orange oil, Quick-Sorb (ginger rhizome, amla fruit, capsicum fruit), rosemary oil Kirkman Labs, Cod Liver Oil Liquid, UnflavoredVit A – 2500 IUVit D – 250 IUVit E – 1 IUEPA – 250 mgDHA – 250 mgOther Ingredients - Cod liver oil, vitamin E oil
Just now read that Molecularly distilled fish oil is good. Nature's Answer seems to claim that their product is molecularly distilled and i see that it marked Best seller in iHerb (also has 553 comments)
Almost all the major brands abroad have oils that are molecularly distilled now.
For cod liver oil I like Twin labs unflavored cod liver oil. Its not expensive and has higher epa/dha/vita/d contents and it does not contain soy also. I use currently about 10 ml of this daily. The taste is neutral.
Other famous brands are nordic naturals. This is what that most people use usually. They get the ProEPA and Pro EFA products
Regarding calcium, at this point I dont think you need to give her since she is taking milk. But in case you go ahead with calcium now or later, get some formula with magnesium also or buy magnesium separately, as magnesium with vit D is needed for proper absorption of calcium.
Be watchful of acetyl l carnitine since it tends to increase yeast. Start with 1/4th of a caps per day. For my son,I could see results within a few hours.
So at the moment I would just suggest to start the multi, wait for a few weeks and then add the fish oils at smaller dosage and build up. wait for about 3 -4 months till immunity is built up (instances of cough cold is almost gone) and then add the acetyl l carnitine,, again at small dosage and build up.
hi guys i dont if this would help, but i found this website www.westonaprice.org ...it has some interesting views on food and how it affects growth and development.....
Thanks jyothiabhimanyu, I have not gone through the link completely as yet, but I have scanned some portions of it. I like the fact that bone broths are used in places where people dont use dairy. I need to research what are the exact values of nutrients for a quantity of bone broth made from how much gm bones etc.
Her milk intake is not regular and only force fed. Anyway, i am planning to go on diet both GF and CF gradually within mid-feb possibly. So i will take your point on Calcium + Magnesium when i introduce
Earlier you had suggested to start on Multi-vitamin perhaps after 4 months into diet as it might some may not tolerate Multi vitamin and may react negatively. but as i am doing only a gradual process on diet is it OK for me to start on Multi vitamin. She used to have zincovit syrup earlier but now not giving her for 1 month or so. She was also having Pedimune which was suggested by her Pediatrician. I guess that to some extend had buit her immunity. Again it is Bovine colustrum powder and has flavour. I had stopped after giving 2 course.
She is having cold for last 3-4 days due to weather condition. This time i gave her citrizine and crocin just one dose on 1st day but trying to manange by applying Vaporub.
I am kind of on Fiengold diet. I have greatly stopped sugars, not giving her biscuits these days as they too contain artificial flavour. However here and there there could be something so i will streamline that also. I guess GF should also not be a problem.
I have started rotating fruits and vegetables also. Earlier for veggie she used to be have carrots more and in fruit, Apple use to dominate.
I wanted to know about stevia (sweetner) which i understand is from root extract, can it be used occasionally, like on porridge so that she doesnt reject
Again on Fish oil i will look at Twinlab. Also i had been reading that dosage suggested for 2-5 yrs is 1/2 tsp, which is 2.5 ml. I tried to read this from ourkidasd site in Kirkman product. I understand you are giving 10 ml. Is that the recommended dosage by Twinlab
Also do you mix in food / beverage or give it as it is?
In one of your earlier post you had written that you give pomegranate juice any specific reason it is given as juice and not as a fruit as such.
Some children will react negatively to individual vitamin/mineral in the multi like some children are zinc toxic, or copper toxic, or even calcium toxic. Thats why I mentioned to streamline the diet first before adding supplements. Its easier to pinpoint then what could be causing issues. For my son when I started the diet itself he was on zincovit. Then I removed it since it had artificials and also had behavior issues like anxiety. Then I changed to viridian multi because it was found in the local pharm and it did not have artificials. But when I started viridian, within 2 days I found his anxiety has gone and for the first time he did not cry when I left him off at school and OT. I later read that high b vitamins help with anxiety and viridian had high bs. Then he developed an unexplainable fever , which I was not sure whether it was due to the vitamin, So I did not renew that vitamin after that bottle was over. Then I started giving kirkmans multi chewable (xylitol version). It worked well to build his immunity when I upgraded the dosage to recommended of 2 tabs per day(I gave one in the morn and 1 in the noon).
I use stevia for my son for oats. I use 1 teaspoon of demerara(brown cane sugar) + 1 scoop of stevia to sweeten it further. Stevia is made from the stevia plant, the extracts are either from the root or leaf. Stevia though it sweetens, it does not taste exactly like sugar. So some may not like its taste- I did not, but my son seems to be ok with it. I use bettersweet stevia from now foods, which they claim does not have the bitter taste that stevias usually have, but I have not tried the original to know the difference.
In general the dosage mentioned for any product is for normal people. For us, we need therapeutic for sometime. Start with low and work up till you see the benefits. I saw speech triggered only after the total epa went to about 1 gm per day. I now give 5 ml of twin labs cod liver oil twice a day. once in morn and once in noon. But fish oils I always started with low dose. Initially I gave 2.5 ml of nutrasea ascenta for a few months before I gave 5 ml of nutrasea.
I usually give it as it is. My son does not have issues with taste of medicines.
Pomegranate, I usually give in juice form since he does not eat it otherwise. And I want to give pomegranate juice, since pomegranate is known to aid in healing the gut. If the child can eat it as fruit , then thats the best. I give him this juice almost everyday.
Thanks NJ for your reply. My kid can eat Pomegranate as a fruit itself. May be for taste sake i can try to make it as juice also 1-2 times a week.
I got your point on Fish oil. I might go for Twinlab or Nature's Answer. I will start with 2.5 ml and work it up based on result.
I am planning to order Stevia, powder perhaps fron Now foods as their price is better.
She does have anxiety issue, like if she doesnt find anything that she wants, even the very first time she will ask with whining only (in tamil if i need to say it is "sinungal"). She is very particular about what dress she has to wear everyday morning. but what i had heard is this is common among many NT kids also
Today morning it was peak of that, as she wanted to wear a rough dress used at home to school which i prevented. She never agreed to that and was crying continously thinking that i will put that dress.. It was already late for school, that is when i saw that she took one of her toy in hand and had taken with her to school. Yesterday she didnt want to take any toy as such. Not sure if it was a compensatory act for the anxiety created due to dress issue
But later when i took her down for van, she completely forgot about her dress issue, but was having her toy in hand. But she doesnt cry to go to school, not even once in last 6 months.
Oflate, i noticed that she rarely lines up her toys, also yesterday in therapy center i had gone to discuss on some goal setting for the month, that time she was given a floor board puzzle. After few mins instead of placing she started stacking up. This stacking up is a new habit.
Also she speaks in a very loud tone. I keep telling her and i also try to talk in low tone but it doesn seem to have got synched up for her.
Try a combo of fish oil with cod liver oil. Probably you may want to start with CLO and then add the fish oil. The best results are seen when EPA:DHA ratio is 2:1 and CLOs usually have EPA:DHA ratios of 1:1 , thats why I said to add fish oil to CLO. and you need to choose a fish oil which has higher EPA than DHA.
The things you described about your daughter is not anxiety in my opinion. Anxiety is severe fear of something which prevents even your day to day functioning properly- For instance in children it can be school anxiety, stranger anxiety, separation anxiety, exam anxiety It can result in severe frustration,depression and meltdowns.
Stacking up or lining up things can be a sensory issue or obsessive compulsive disorder, usually will be rectified when allergens are removed from the diet. To help with , try to arrange it in a different way when she is stacking up, so she sees you and imitates, So whenever she lines or stacks try to gently distract her. When my son was doing this, for instance lining up his cars, I would say, lets take a car out for a ride, <then after taking it around for a minute> I would say shall we park it here(in another place), similarly I would do with the other cars, and prompt him to chase the car I'm riding with the car he chose to ride and vice versa. Similarly if he is just stacking up the building blocks. I would say something like shall we make a house/garage for your car<or any favorite animal toy> , then I would make the frame with the blocks, and prompt him to build around the frame.If she does not follow your instructions for the first few times, dont get disappointed, but continue to find ways where she will be interested in playing differently. The key is to never leave these children to play alone for some time. Someone has to keep playing with them 1:1 attention is needed, even at home. Ask your mil or someone who is in the house in your absence to keep playing with her. You can also look at the option of hiring a girl in her teens who can play with her in your absence, since perhaps your in laws may not have the energy to be able to play with her.
Talking out aloud is a sign of yeast. Usually many of the symptoms go away with anti yeast treatment. But you need to find out one which works for her.. Some people have even used turmeric with good results, but for some it did not work. Just look around on the net for stories on anti yeast treatments available and what others have done and their feedback on various methods they have tried. Always keep in mind that each child is unique. So what works on one may not necessarily work for the other. This is even for the diet also. For instance some children actually get better language when on gluten rather than off gluten. There are some stories on the net for this -- For instance Dana in her website mentioned that her children actually did well on gluten than off it.
You may find information on this website useful- http://www.geohanover.com/docs/ph1.htm
I came across this when I was searching on iodine and thyroid connection. But it also has some info on ph balance.
im going on a slight tangent here, but im a big beilever of oil pulling (it restores the ph balance)...dont know if this'll help...but this is a website which has all kinds of natural remedies....www.earthclinic.com...though i dot know how to get the kids to oil pull....even though website mentions all kinds of oil, ayurveda prefers sesame oil or coconut oil...
also one question...does yeast or any other bad bacteria in the stomach cause delay in speech, ear problem or any other issues other than stomach problems of course. my daughter seems to have excess ear wax production only in one ear!! we get it cleaned and in another month its back again? i think it might be sugar causing this, but not sure....
Cod liver oil and Fish oil are different? Upon some google i understand that Cod Liver Oil is Oil from Liver or Cod fish which also contains Vitamin A & D. Fish oil is derived from Tissue of Oily fish.
So far, when i was looking at Fish oil i was not distinguishing b/w Fish and CLO.
so in that case i see than Twin lab Cod liver has better EPA to DHA ratio, however it is not 2:1 but 1.5:1. I need to narrow on Fish oil which has higher EPA:DHA ratio. May be 1 month i will give CLO and then add Fish oil.
What i mentioned above as anxiety is that she get bit nervous when she does not find any object that she wants, she expressess in form of displeaure way of whining and asking.
I guess i need to work on Yeast protocol. She does have Random talk and self talking. Especially self talking is very evident when she is put to sleep, she will atleast talk for 1/2 hr before going to sleep and I guess she does have problem falling asleep. But once gets sleep she does have sound sleep for 7-8 hr unless she is unwell.
Again this weekend she was down with High fever 104 (that is how she gets always) and had to take a mild antibiotic. So i think i need to look at probiotic routine also.
Yes, CLO and Fish oil give the same benefits, but CLO has vitamin A and D which helps fight viruses. CLO has almost equal EPA:DHA ratio. So if you need 2:1 ratio of EPA:DHA, then its better to add fish oil which has much more EPA than DHA. I was giving fish oil alone for sometime. It was only recently(I think about 4 months back only) I started the CLO. I also give the CLO because a DHA of about 500 mg is good for attention and focus. Some of the fish oils contain GLA (omega 6) which is also good for brain development.
When she is self talking, does she respond to questions appropriately? If she does, then there is no issue. Else you may want to check out on yeast.
Sickness regresses children even normal ones. I have seen normal kids displaying severe behavior issues especially when they are try to recover from illness.
hi is GSE available in medical stores?
I dont know about oil pulling though I have heard the term earlier. But it looks like all the practitioners listed in the earth clinic are in US only anyway. I'm on the hunt in looking for a homeopathist who could help with homeopathic chelation. I had tried ayurvedha on my son earlier, but it did not suit him, made him more aggressive instead. So I stopped. and now the only thing I follow is Biomed. But if ayurvedha works out for you there is nothing like it, since it is available locally in India and its quite less expensive as compared to Biomed option.
Yes Yeast and Bad bacteria can cause developmental issues and autistic symptoms. Bad bacteria creates propionic acid which in turn triggered autistic symptoms in lab mice which returned to normal when the propionic acid was properly metabolized
Children with autism spectrum symptoms are prone to yeast, possibly because their bodies cannot remove it by themselves like healthy children do. and yeast interferes with learning. So when this is treated successfully, one mostly sees a huge improvement in symptoms.
I dont know if ear wax is a symptom of yeast. But I did some googling on ear wax and yeast and came across this as one of the links -
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